Anyone else?

[Aureus]

Rant about the American government. Don't like? Don't read.


Is anyone else tired of having people tell you what you can and can't do to your body? Is anyone else tired of having your personal belongings checked, and your bottled water thrown away for the sake of a 1 in a million chance that it'll save you? Is anyone else tired of the MTV generation bullshit we're fed by the media? Is anyone else tired of the sub par 'work' that people do and get paid for these days? Is anyone tired of being scared of the consequences if you don't put your money in the government controlled banks? Is anyone else tired of being scared by the politicians who tell us our enemy is their opposition or some random group of scary people 'over there'? Is anyone else tired of the shitty education they receive that's not even half as good as that of students in other countries? Is anyone else tired of paying the fixed prices of monopolies? Is anyone else tired of having the media tell you people of certain skin colors should be herded off into 'special' lines for 'special attention'? Is anyone else tired of having their AOL or Goggle search histories checked by the government? Is anyone else tired of free speech and the rest of the constitution being shit on? Is anyone else tired of the overall lack of responsibility people take these days? Is anyone else tired of being told how to live their life? I am.

[akada]

Heh. I have a bit to say towards this.

If you hate it so much, go and live in africa where you get stuck with disease and famine almost 24/7.

If you hate it so much, go to a smaller asian country, where the education is oh so good, and yet, you have to work in a sweat shop to make ends meat.

If you hate it so much go to where the Brits roam, and the prices of gas soar far over what it is here.

If you hate it so much, then why dont you go where the taliban live, and be subjected to so many different regulations that your head will spin just from the thought of it.

If you hate it so much, then why dont you go to India, and rest in place where the closest thing you can find to a woman without thousands of dollars is your hand or your camel.

If you hate it so much. Dont bitch. Get the fuck out.

[Aureus]

Heh, you just started something you won't be able to keep up with. You're American, I'm guessing. If so, than you know all about the beginning of our country, etc. Now there's a little document called the constitution that protects people from who? Oh, that's right the government. Why? Because the colonists had just finished fighting a war against a tyrannical ruler so they wanted the people of the new nation they were creating to be protected from a government with too much power, no? We also have laws that stop me from infringing on your rights, and you from doing the same to me. This way everyone can enjoy life, liberty, and happiness.

The government we have now is telling you what you can and can not do to your own body. It's telling you that you should not be safe in your person. All for what? A little security. "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" - Ben Franklin. I think many people would agree that Mr. Franklin was one of smartest founding fathers we had. So my question to you is, would you have told the colonists that if they didn't like what Britain was doing they should have just left?

As a reply to your accusation, I do not hate this country. I love what this country stands for more than anything. But now, we have a government that's changing that. That's what I don't like. So I'm guessing that like our President, you'd say the constitution is 'just a piece of paper.' Right?

I would've at least respected your difference of opinion if you somehow logically backed up what the government's doing, but instead you flammed me. So in turn I'm gonna make you look like an idiot.

See I try to be a terrorist. Not in the conventional sense, but in the sense that I keep people too scared to run their mouths unless they've done their homework.



Oh, and I'll say this one more time: DON'T LIKE, DON'T READ

[moto]

How fair is it to bash a government without showing both sides? If you only show one side of an arguement, it will lean towards the side that looks the best compared on the facts shown. Some of what you Aureus say is true, as is some of what Hiroko says.

I personally enjoy hearing all I can about debates that involve conflicts in our time. But I kinda get a little mad when things are being shown in a light that makes only one side of the picture viewable. When more facts are pulled out, it usually means further arguement, but thats what a debate is. Its what I would call a 'fair fight with all the cards on the table.'

When you say your things about our government you only show the total crap part of the picture, only showing the bad and not the good. I can understand that you're mad at the government for whatever reasons you have, and I can respect that. But it isn't going to kill you or anyone else to show the other side of things as well. When I show half the facts and throw things in my favor unfairly, I feel like how you describe our 'corrupt' government.

Just remember nothing is perfect and everything that has a begenning has an end. Our governmental shit is going to hit the fan sooner or later.

Our government was founded around 200 years ago... Alot of stuff has happened. Some things that worked then doesn't work now, some stuff still does, but for how long will it still work?

Also. The media sucks. I would take everything you hear from the media with a rather large quanity of salt. They 'show half the picture.' They bend news to better quench the thirst of America.

I just want a even debate, seeing how this could easily be considered one now.

[Aureus]

Vince, thanks for your input. However, you have to realize that the aim of this thread wasn't to give a full, detailed overview of the government. The core issue in my first post was civil liberties, popular opinion, and the constitution. I wasn't gonna sit here and talk about how good or bad the economy is. And I wasn't going to sit down and list all of the items in the constitution that the government is following.

Regarding the part about times changing, I believe that civil liberties are things that should not change over time. The right to be secure in your person should not change, the right to bear arms shouldn't not change, the right to assemble shouldn't change, etc. And finally my information does come from the media, but so what? Is George bush gonna address the nation through a blog? No, he does it through CNN and the news channels. There's also a thing called Cnet where you can watch congress debate, etc. If there are any particular things I said that you question my sources for, I'll be glad to tell you 'cause I don't feel like going down the whole list if you're only referring to 3 things. You don't have to remind me of the one sidedness of American media, heh.

And I'm sorry, but Hiroko isn't really right. If you mean he was correct in describing the situations in other countries, than yes he was right. But that has nothing to do with what I said. If you're agreeing with him that if you have a problem with something you should just abandon it, than no I think that's completely wrong and ignorant to say. I believe there are things wrong with this board, but do I just up and leave 'cause there are some problems? No, I try to make things better. Anyone who supports jumping ship because of any problem is a coward. Depending on the situation of course. Like I said before, if the colonists left because they didn't like what was happening we wouldn't have the country we have today. They risked their lives to make it better. See my point?

[moto]

First paragraph resonce:

Its always cool to have my opinion heard. Thanks for letting me post. See, but the thing is your posting only with about the bad, which I know is your intention. By doing so is like kicking a man square in the nuts with steel toe boots when in a friendly spar. Ya know, just messing around. Sure you can do it, but it isn't exactly what you should do. Honestly I can understand where most of your opinions come from, I agree with some, mabey all of them. But your comparing 'ours' to 'theirs' with statements that intentionally make how our government works look like crap. Although you can do that to your hearts content, thanks to the constitution (I think... Sorry, the summer has warped some of my logic. So if you see inconsistanties, please correct me.)

Third paragraph responce:

I see your reasoning crystal clear. I was using Hiroko as a example of showing an example of 'all the facts.' or like the really cool F.M. show thingie, 'the rest of the story.' I can see what he was trying to get to. His first and second parts might have little to do with each other, but they still apply to your opeining post. He shows examples of worse conditions than what we have. Then as a closing he simply adresses

'If you hate it so much. Dont bitch. Get the fuck out.'

His exact words. He might be simply saying 'Just stop complaining and go somewhere else if you dislike whats happening to this country so much.' I'm not sure if thats what he meant, seeing how I am not Hiroko. I may be wrong.

Second paragraph responce:

Ahh yes, things should not change, but we are only human. Looking back, some changes were good, some were crap. Like during the drafting of the declaration of independence, some of the founding fathers owned slaves and supported the idea of slaves. Later, we beat the shit out of each other to change that during the Civil War. I'm too out of it to think of any other things. And I'm not trying to challenge what you say. My origional reason for posting was to clarify what was happening with the posts being put out. I think i've heard of Cnet. I should start watching it if what you say is true.

If anything I put above is not true, please do not hesitate to correct me.

Edit: I'm also due for some sleep, so i'm going to bed now. I'll post as soon as possible when I wake up later today, seeing how it is 2:17 over where i'm at.

[Aureus]

Quick reply to your first paragraph: If there's anyone out there that doubts the entirety of our government because of what I said, I support them no more than you do. I zeroed in on what I wanted to. So using your analogy: I laid my cards on the table, anyone else that wants to lay theirs down as long as it's relevant to the topics I talked about is welcome to. Or if they want, they can create their own thread listing all the good the government does. Anyways I've said my peace, and until anyone else needs clarification; I'm done.

[akada]

Mm. I just started something I wont be able to keep up with? Heh. You must be kidding.

First off. Shit changes, REGARDLESS of what you say or do. If I remember right, those same "founding fathers" held slaves, who were men, but sure as hell werent treated equally, so how the hell where those so called "Civil Liberties" of any relevance. Secondly. Those founding fathers again set up something called the Electorial College. Why? Because they believed the people were too fucked in the head to know what was right.

I love this country to death, and I SURE as fuck wont go live somewhere else, but with that comes the fact you need to remember those simple words.

"Shit happens, and from that, shit changes."

You wouldnt be saying "The Right to Bare Arms" if some fuck nut down the street was stacked to the hilt AK-47's and had an itchy trigger finger. Hell no, because that puts your body in danger and others in that area in danger.


And you really dont want to get into that right to assemble shit, as there are BIG differences. You have a right to assemble. PEACEFULLY. However, if you go ragging on a country your trying to get rights in, I would tell you to fuck off too.

You dont go in the lobby of a big buisness saying they suck hard core and waving some shit from another company and expect to have your needs to be answered. No. You get thrown out by the cops.

The Government doesnt tell you what to do with your body until you are so fuckin' stupid that it costs them money. The government didnt tell you to pull your wang out of your pants and then expect to be paid up front for it. The government didnt tell you to go out and spread your legs either.

The ONLY people who have any right to not be told rather they can have a baby taken out or not are those who are put in health risk. You cant take care of the kid? Dont fuckin' have sex until you do. Plain and simple.


I know my homework, so dont think your some "terroist" to me.

[Deleted]

Let's just put this to rest with...

PEOPLE ARE STUPID!!!

Case and point... I wanted to make that real big letters but don't know how cause the button thing doesn't work for me.

Also a woman is suing a weatherman because the weather ruined her weekend. These type of people need to shot... in the face... I am not joking... if I lead a country and someone wanted to do this I would have them executed for being stupid and wasting the court's time.

HEY! LADY! THE WEATHER DOES NOT CONTROL THE WEATHER! HE TRIES TO PREDICT IT!!!

I hate people... -_-;;;

[akada]

Well, thank you for reminding me of that.

Some cock sucker breaks in your house, doesnt have a weapon, and you shoot him. Guess what? He can sue you, and HE CAN WIN. Wheres your right to bare arms now? Out in the garbage can, but guess what? He is also expressing his rights.

See. THIS is why shit changes, if you followed word by word the bible in the past, you would get stoned to death by every turn, hell, back in the old days it was perfectly alright for a man to come up and kiss a woman right on the lips, it was considered a greeting among friends, you do that now and she is married or a girlfriend of someone, your probably gonna get one pissed off boy friend coming at you..

Anyways. A stupid person? Anyone who fights for animals to be treated as humans. When they walk up right and start paying taxes and contribute something to the overall technological advancement of their kind, then thats fine.

I can understand some idiot just beating an animal, ok, thats an animal right I would fight for right off the bat. However, people fighting against furs, and dog fights/cock fights.

What most people dont get, is these animals are treated better then some humans are, if they are going to fight, you be damn sure they are going to be in good shape, getting good food, cleaned up, all of that. Offer that to some ethopian child and he would probably jump in a ring with another kid and have it out.

Another thing however, if an animal deserves to be treated like a human, why the hell dont they control their anger and walk away? Instinct? Oh. Humans have instinct too, and some of us still walk away. Then you get the whining.. well well well the humans urged them on, and the animals arent as smart as humans are! Bingo. Arguement done and over. They arent as smart as we are, there for they dont need to be treated as we are.. I leave you with this.. why the fuck are you purifying dog water when alot of people cant get water that is even clean enough to drink? XD

[Deleted]

akada said:

Well, thank you for reminding me of that.

Some cock sucker breaks in your house, doesnt have a weapon, and you shoot him. Guess what? He can sue you, and HE CAN WIN. Wheres your right to bare arms now? Out in the garbage can, but guess what? He is also expressing his rights.

See. THIS is why shit changes, if you followed word by word the bible in the past, you would get stoned to death by every turn, hell, back in the old days it was perfectly alright for a man to come up and kiss a woman right on the lips, it was considered a greeting among friends, you do that now and she is married or a girlfriend of someone, your probably gonna get one pissed off boy friend coming at you..

Anyways. A stupid person? Anyone who fights for animals to be treated as humans. When they walk up right and start paying taxes and contribute something to the overall technological advancement of their kind, then thats fine.

I can understand some idiot just beating an animal, ok, thats an animal right I would fight for right off the bat. However, people fighting against furs, and dog fights/cock fights.

What most people dont get, is these animals are treated better then some humans are, if they are going to fight, you be damn sure they are going to be in good shape, getting good food, cleaned up, all of that. Offer that to some ethopian child and he would probably jump in a ring with another kid and have it out.

Another thing however, if an animal deserves to be treated like a human, why the hell dont they control their anger and walk away? Instinct? Oh. Humans have instinct too, and some of us still walk away. Then you get the whining.. well well well the humans urged them on, and the animals arent as smart as humans are! Bingo. Arguement done and over. They arent as smart as we are, there for they dont need to be treated as we are.. I leave you with this.. why the fuck are you purifying dog water when alot of people cant get water that is even clean enough to drink? XD

... If some guy broke into my house and I shot him... he wouldn't have the chance to sue... BOOM head shot... though how many shots that will take is anybody's guess.

The second thing... that is just paranoia... people hear about so much cheating and adultery they freak out if their significant other looks at other person for more than three seconds. Sad man...

As for "treatment of animals" These people do realize when they die alone their eight cats will eat out their eyeballs, don't they? Well, there are people so... I guess that would be a no. Personally I don't give a flying fuck what people do to their animals... they own them, take care of them, or not... I don't care. But if that thing gives me problems I will smush under my car.

And just so no one thinks I hate all animals... I have a cat... I love my cat, my cat often sleeps in my bed with me... but do forgive if I don't give two shits if someone half way around the world is eating one... it ain't my cat.

In the end it's Darwinism... or more so survival of the vicious... those who can take what they want and need do so, those who can't die. It's all about looking out for you and yours...

[akada]

No. Sad part there? If you kill him, they can actually try you for murder. XD Yea, for defending your home.

Mm. I follow that same rule, if its your animal, whatever, not my problem.

I want a kitty though but at the moment, the dog we have eats anything under two feet -_-; I could get a BIG kitty, but then it would probably eat the dog XD

Hmm. Well, here is a simple problem solving saying.

Humans beings in general are like children at a young age, some will behave, but most of them only want their cookies and do shit when you have your back turned. Until we grow up as a whole, freedom just wouldnt work. Which would you prefer? Having a ton of freedom and no security? or little freedom and plenty of security.

Why the fuck should you be worried if they are reading your google searchs unless your doing something illegal anyways? I mean, its the same people that are worried about someone recording your phone calls.. ooo.. wow. Unless your doing something you shouldnt be doing, why the fuck do you care?

Oh.. I forgot.. its the era where "Bobby loves Johnny must remain a secret! Tell no one!"

[Deleted]

I'd like to see them convict me on that... self defense... or I'll just get a sign "Warning: Tresspassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again."

Personally I hate our Justice system... "aw... he's a sorry little criminal... let's give him a second chance." Fuck that! If he steals something... I'd like to see him steal with one hand... he does it again... well no need for three strikes rule, he's out of hands to steal with. Or... "You tried to kill him so we sentence you to life in prison." I.E. taxpayers have to pay for you to live out the rest of your life. Again, fuck that... take them out back of the courtroom, make them dig a ditch and pop them in the back of the head and push the dirt over the corpse. Everything is settle and comparitvely cheap.

Which would you prefer? Having a ton of freedom and no security? or little freedom and plenty of security.

Also, with the example of shooting a thief, you disprove this. If he can break into your house and get injured, not even from you shooting him, and sue you for money. You have no security and no freedom, besides the freedom to be ass-invaded. Personally I'll take all the freedom I can handle and provide my own security.

As for your cat problem... get one with an attitude so that if the dog tries to eat it, the kitty goes nuts and scrathes the dogs nose... I would pay to see it... that and two Ethopian kids going UFC style would be pretty cool. >_>

[Aureus]

Alright, most of my respect for you went out the door. *sigh* I don't really have the time to rant like this, but if I don't it's gonna bug the hell out of me. Though you could have at least stayed on topic. I don't see what animal cruelty has to do with what I was saying, but whatever. *sigh* Where to start...

Alright. Lets start with the slaves and things change....AGAIN. First off, when the constitution was being drafted John Adams and a good number of the northern colonies wanted to abolish slavery. However, all the southern representatives shot it down because their whole economy was based on it. How fucking dare you compare any of our other rights to the deadlocked right to keep slaves. That was ONE thing that changed, and I'll fucking bet anything that you can't give me another example of any other of our rights that has or should change. Go through fucking all of 'em.

The right to bare arms. If my whole family was murdered by someone with an AK-47 I'd STILL support the right to bare arms. Why? For a few simple reasons. YOU CAN'T STOP CAZY PEOPLE FROM DOING CRAZY THINGS. Guns are not the goddamn problem. I don't know if you know this, but in areas where people are allowed to carry concealed weapons the crime rate GOES DOWN. Why? Because the majority of people do not go on murdering rampages, so you're putting guns in the hands of responsible people. However, if you take guns away, you take them away from said people. If something's illegal, it's not gonna stop people who want them from getting them.

Examples? Well there was alcohol...drugs...explosives...need I go on? Even if you got rid of every gun, people would still do crazy things. If I have to hammer that point home one more time I'm gonna kill someone. Now some people say guns are dangerous. Alright, sure they are. And so are alot of other goddamn things. But you don't get rid of something useful just 'cause it has a risk involved. Each year there are around 150 gun related accidents. Sure, all of them are horrible, and the parents or whoever that left the guns out in the open for the children to play with should be punished for their negligence. However there are also 310 ten cooking fires a year. So what do you want to do now? Ban people from cooking?

So why do people need guns? Well sure you can call the police when you're being attack by a thug. "Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Thug just let me whip out my cell and call 911." That's fucking bullshit and you know it. And even if you could, who do you call out against the police? As I stated before. The colonists fought a two year long war against state militias. Now anyone with brains knows that that state militia was alot like police. Therefore, the founding fathers wanted to make sure the people could always protect themselves from the government. The right to bare arms is the most important. Do you know why? Because without it all of our other rights mean shit, because you have nothing to defend them with. "The tree of liberty must be replenished from time to time in the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson. Mr. Jefferson believed we should have an armed rebellion every twenty years if we really wanted freedom. Seriously who cares about a couple lives over a century if it means freedom. It needs to be done.

Next. The government doesn't only tell you what you can and can't do to your body until it starts costing them money. Why? They do it to fucking make money! Alcohol. The government makes a fuck load of money from the sale of alcohol, and at one point it was illegal and people got pissed and there was an increase in crime because of it. Now, prescription drugs. This shouldn't even exist. Because who the fuck is the government to tell you what you should do to your body? Every type of substance has positive and negative effects, deal with it. We have doctors who study this type of shit for a reason. They can tell you what can help and what won't. Your sick, you ask them, you buy the drug. The government doesn't need to come into the fucking equation. As for weed and all that other shit. It should be legal. The government shouldn't be there to be your babysitter. If something you do fucks you up and you die, oh the fuck well. And since this fits with your theme, people who fuck shouldn't be given money from the government. They can't afford to live? Oh fucking well they did it to themselves.

Oh and real quick. Someone breaking into someone elses home with the intention to hurt them or steal their shit is NOT exercising their rights. That is infringing on someone else's life liberty and happiness and is not legal.

Now I'm getting really tired of ranting and have better things to do so I'll finish this up with a few comments. People are no fucking better than animals. We're simply more evolved. Like an ape is compared to an ant. We think we're special and all this other bullshit but we're not. Most likely there's something out there more evolved than we are. And finally, yes alot of people are fucking stupid. But that's more because of the social climate that we live in. I could go all into sociology but I'm fucking tired of this. I might pick it up later.

[shuuhei]

Alright, I'll say this once. Hiroko, Aureus, cool your jets. We're all friends here and there is no need to flame. If I see any more flaming this thread will be locked.

/Shuuhei