The Discussion Thread

[Aureus]

This is an idea I've had for a while. People must have serious questions and or opinions they feel like sharing and discussing with others and because the spam thread is for general chat, there should be a thread for serious conversations. So ask a question, or present an idea and then go to town. Only one topic at a time though. I'll kick things off.

How much should the government know about people? Should they be able to force router manufacturers to make back doors in all their routers? Should they make everyone get a chip implanted into their wrist that contains all of their personal information? Where do you draw the line?

[Jason Harris]

Wow just saw this. ANYWAY, I draw the line when the government is spying on use for any bullshit reason they feel like making. If they are really trying to stop crime or terrorism and already have some proof of what illegal act said people are partaking in then I have no problem with spying on people. But, if it's just suspicion then I feel the people spying on the possibly innocent should be hung.

Now addressing the government forcing a business to do anything. We have a free enterprise which, correct me if I'm wrong, means the government says out of business. That alone sums up how I feel about the government making any business do anything.

Now the chip and the government knowing about people. In short if they put a chip in my wrist to give out all my information I would take it out. I don't care how much it would hurt or how hard it would be to do, I'd find a way to do it. I can see why it is a good idea, but if for some reason I feel like keeping information about myself from someone I should be able to. In other words, no one should be able to know anything about me without looking hard for my information or me telling them.

[Mathew Amtrum]

I have never read the bible so forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't having a number or something in your wrist to keep tabs on you a sign of the end of days? The whole number of the beast thing?

[Ender]

Ryan: "666: The Mark of the Beast

What is it?
Many Christians believe the 666 mark will be a biochip implant to create the cashless society of Revelation 13.

Why is it so bad?
All who take the mark will be damned by God to be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Why will those who take the mark be damned?
I think it's because God made Silver and Gold as honest weights and measures to be used as money!
Money is NOT paper (which is a promise), not electronic credits, not chips, not a mark, nor a number!

Rev 13: [16] He [the second beast] caused everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive an etching of servitude (made with a sharp point) in their right hand, or in their foreheads; [17] so that no one could buy or sell unless they had the etching of servitude, or the authority of the beast, or the number of his authority."

[Aureus]

Another Closely Related Issue

EDIT: And another: "Following in the wake of February's news that customs agents were seizing electronics and making copies of all the files on cell phones and laptop hard drives, a federal appeals court has ruled on the legality of such searches."

[The New Student Dean]

I want to revive this thread as opposed to just making one of my own.

Reason?

My college classes have been making me think as of late.

I'd like, if you would, to open up with a thought on "What it is that defines a man" with society versus the reality, and perhaps touch on the points of what's been going on.

If I make any references to anyone I know (whether on this board or no), it will be as "Anonymous 1" or "2" and so forth and so on, and I ask that any and all that want to join me in here to do the same.

The reason for starting on the discussion of what society's view of the "ideal" man is because of what a lot of my friends on the board and off and what I see on TV, movies, the commercials, touch on how it was in the past and how it has evolved/devolved/changed/etcetera... the associated habits... etcetera.

Just to start us off, if any of ya'll want to think on it/begin for us.

[Kevala Badoer]

I have to say I am happy to see this thread. I like discussions.

Know first that I am taking this question as literal as possible. I do not see the harm in doing such, simply wish to make clear my intentions.

"What is it that defines a man?"

For me this is a tricky question, seeing as how I have been trying to figure out the answer to this for many years myself. Growing up, I was taught that the man was the bread winner. He was the king of the castle and his word was law. I also watched and learned that he could come and go as he pleased, looked out for himself and no other. I learned that he was to be revered and worshipped by those close to him. He did no wrong and as long as he worked hard and provided for the family, he was a man.

A man was measured by the strength in his hands and the amount of money he brought home each week. The harder he worked the more of a man he was.

I believed this my entire childhood. Believed that it was alright for a man to get away with unspeakable acts so long as he provided for the family. I believed that he truly was king and there was nothing I could do to change it.

I thought that the men I read about in books and saw on television were a myth, an unobtainable dream. And though for the most part they are, it helped me to reach a balanced decision as to what defines a man.

A man, to me, is somebody who sees his responsibilities and takes hold of them fully. He stands up for what he believes in even if the entire world is against him. He is a protector of those who need his protection and yet does not raise his hand to a woman. He has enough strength to walk away. Not stand above somebody and beat them down simply because he can. He listens to things that are important and he tries to be there for those he loves. He is not afraid to ask for help from those he trusts and he knows clearly the difference between right and wrong.

I have met many people who know the difference, and choose to ignore it. A man, a true man, does not. As of late I have met several people I would consider men, as I have defined above.

One of which...Annonymous 1-- has listened to me, and listens to others who need him. He is kind, considerate and has taken the steps to put his life in order. He does not shy away from trouble, faces it head on and meets any new challenge that is set before him. He takes care of his responsiblities but does not let the stress of life push him to the point that he shuts others out. He is an amazing friend and from my talks with him, I have seen that he has some pretty amazing ideals about life. Now I do not know him as well as I would like to. But it is because he takes on so much and does not shy away from it, that he is sometimes unreachable. But then, you cannot curse the man for being that which defines him as such. Can you?

I am just happy that in some sense I can call him my friend and say that I have met somebody that truly lives up to my definition of what makes a man.

Granted this is my opinion and I am certain that there will be many who will dispute it. But -shrugs- Tis my way of thinking. Enjoy the little bit of insight into my mind.

[Jason Harris]

A man is someone that meets problems head on. He will do the best to deal with them not only for himself, but for the people he cares about. He does his best to treat people with respect, but if needed he can and will fight for those he cares about.

Short and to the point, but that's what I feel a man is. It doesn't have to do with his money or if he can provide for his family. My old math teacher said it best.

"A man should be able to talk to a king, yet walk with a pocket knife."

EDIT: What he is saying is men are suppose to be nobility and scum at he same time. Men are expected to be both for different situations.

Not the the extend it's pro-trade in media. If it was up to them you're either a nice whimp or killing everyone.

But I'm gonna stop cause I can rant about that bullshit forever. I was just trying to explain what he meant. There needs to be a balance to 'good' and 'bad.' It's hard for most people to find the balance cause your choice of good role models are very limited.

[Aureus]

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

--Rudyard Kipling