MAJOR QI REFORMS [IMPORTANT]

[Tyr Odinson]

So, I'm letting you guys know just what I'm taking care of.

Qi, as is obvious.

Over the past several months, this area of our board has escalated to a very, very startling degree. So there is no hard feelings between anyone, I'll attack myself in this area, as its growth was mostly my fault.

My character, David Blaze, has a Qi that multiplies his dexterity times eight, and gives him boosts to his constitution as well. This is a disgusting perversion of an imperfect system, and i blame myself for that. There were no laws as to boosters or multipliers, and at the time i took advantage of that for my own characters gain. For a while, it was damn fun, but in the end caused the ultimate destruction of my role-playing urge and abilities. As an RPer, i relied to much on this ability and not enough on my skill, finesse, and own characters statistics which i earned through combat. I gained exp by constantly activating this highly overpowered ability, and now i know that the exp and current stats i have are unearned.

It was unfair to myself and most of all, unfair to you guys, and is another leading factor as to why i quit RPing him.

However, i have a chance to change all that for anyone who may think about joining, or look at our board in a negative way, or currently be a part but feel flustered or aggravated at whats happened and is happening with those abilities.

Xin. Its a great on-line flash anime, and one of my favorites. It incorporates the use of Qi- the ability to give a short, small boost to your character. I like this- its sort of a powerful move that your character can use in times of trouble or to simply make a point. Through time, as previously stated, this small, relatively inconsequential part of our characters has come to make up a massive portion of our IC fights. On 259, you can level buildings simply by activating your Qi, and cause untold destruction with a little energy.

I, unfortunately for a lot of us, plan to change that.

This is not a Board dedicated to Dragonball Z, or Bleach, or anything else where super powered abilities are possible. PHS 259 is a XIN board, and we really need to take it back to the roots. As such, I'm going to start today by going through every single active bio and, in all likelihood, utterly freezing 95% of peoples Qi as i see fit. I have the well wishes of the Staff and the admin, but i need to hear some feedback from you guys.

Here are some points and factors I'm reasoning out for this.

1) As i said, this is Xin. Look back at the flash- Qi was used only a handful of times throughout the 18 episodes, it was NOT a major deciding factor in a battle.

2) We, as a board, have grown alot of our characters to a disgusting degree- we have people easily reaching the 100's in stats within months. As such, our newcomers can't enjoy the true nature of xin, or fighting, because regardless of how good you may be, as soon as you step into a battle, all your opponent needs to win is to activate his "Ability" and you lose.

3) I want to take us to a point where Qi and Combat are no longer separate entities, each giving a massive advantage over someone else. People have made Qi and items simply for the express purpose of nullifying and negating someone Else's Qi- this needs to change so everyone can get on equal ground, and use their skills as a writer to do combat.

Now, here is a time where you can ask questions, post concerns, and fill me in on what you would like to see changed. I want you guys to be a part of what i do, to continue to give you the creative options and abilities you deserve. Regardless, however, changes ARE going to happen- its not something that arguing or attacking will stop. If you wish to attack or yell or flame, to so to me privately- i welcome the chance to try and explain my side of things, and though normally yelling or drastically attacking a mod is unwelcome, i give permission to do so as far as this message goes. Feel free to tell me what you really think of this, but in the end know this-

Now is a time to help in the change, not try to hinder it, and if you do tear me apart via PM, know that these changes MUST still happen, and i do want everyones help in making it so.

Thanks, and feel free to respond according to your beliefs, just remember to keep things civil in this thread.

EDIT: Also, here is my msn if you wish to speak with me directly.

[e-mail]

[Matrim Gallagher]

I'm posting a reply because I agree with a lot said here, so I want you to know that I'm posting this with full hearted agreement, while my opinion on a few things is different I in no way doubt that you can do this fairly Corey.

First I want to commend you for your statement about David in the beginning, it is not you who has let this get out of hand in my opinion, responsibility can't be solely placed on one staff member, nor one member for that matter. I have my share in this, and I admit to that. So don't worry, you aren't the only one with that.

Second, me and you could probably argue for hours on whether or not Qi was a deciding factor, I think sometimes it can be, even in xin. To use a comical example, the only person who could make Goth truly exhibit the pain he was given was Ralph due to a fire Qi xD but I do agree that it's lame when someone can just use Qi and become leagues above you, this is unavoidable with Qi level and experience with strengthening a character but it can be contained a bit better than it has, and I trust you to be able to do that.

And third I want to just say I trust you to do this fairly. That these changes should apply to everyone, but not simply punish a select few. I would never accuse you of anything like that, nor do I think you would ever do anything like that. It's just something I feel needs to be said, remember with Qi levels and experience some will naturally be stronger. And Qi is not solely responsible for the increase in stats. But it's a step in the right direction and I hope other areas of the board follow with this direction.

and though normally yelling or drastically attacking a mod is unwelcome, i give permission to do so as far as this message goes.

..... [yell]THREAD WITH ME YOU BASTARD![/yell]

[Tyr Odinson]

Thanks for the input and the comments- its good to hear that my first reaction is a positive one- and don't worry- as stated, 95%+ of the board will likely be frozen, not just the strongies, but everyone.

As for a thread, we'll see, im currently refirguring statistics and Qi for my character, and other matters (mostly this one) will be sucking up most of my 259 time, but if/when i bring him back, we'll definitely thread, eh? =]

[Matrim Gallagher]

sounds good =3

[Katsuri Katashi]

lolwutsqi?

/agree

[Vespyr]

I agree with this. I think qi's are cool and all (though i don't have one) but during fights, the writer's skill is more important than the power of a qi, in my opinion. That makes it fair for everyone, including those who don't have a qi, like myself. I like fights, but i see how it could be discouraging for the qi-less and newcomers if everyone they're fighting can easily wipe them out with just the power of their qi. At that point, the writer's skill isn't even relevant anymore, and isn't WRITING the purpose of roleplay in the first place?

So yeah. Goooo Coreyyyyy. And if/when you do start roleplaying again, BRING SCENE BACK TOO! I miss our epic threadzzz.

Love ya~

[David B.]

thanks again guys for the support.

it may take a bit for me to start in on people, so i'll be mostly going over bios and writing down which ones i have issue with, and i'll begin freezing and PMing the reasons behind the freezes this weekend.

[Quan Tian Meng]

As far as qi goes I feel all range qi's should go byebye.

that is all

for now

*poofs back into unannounced hiatus

[Matrim Gallagher]

The relevance of this post to the Qi reforms is because of the reasons for the Qi reforms which were stated, a suggestion that it isn't Qi that is causing this, even though I do agree with Qi reform.

So after talking to Jess for a bit, She came up with a really good point that I do want to post here. Just so you know the relevance is that it does demonstrate that the problem is not rooted with Qi so much as something else. That while we can alter Qi's it doesn't solve the the issue of nobody being able to compare in power whether they be a semi active member or a new character altogether.

For one, if you nerf Qi, you nerf the new people's Qi as well, so that in itself defeats some of the purpose. Not to say I don't think Qi needs to be dealt with, I do, and I agree with this, but I do not think it is the most crucial step that needs to be taken.


Now before I lose you here, I want to make sure that everyone is on the same page. Corey mentions in his post that ...

2) We, as a board, have grown alot of our characters to a disgusting degree- we have people easily reaching the 100's in stats within months. As such, our newcomers can't enjoy the true nature of xin, or fighting, because regardless of how good you may be, as soon as you step into a battle, all your opponent needs to win is to activate his "Ability" and you lose.

But after thinking about it, this isn't because of Qi. Our stats got higher because of the new Int rule, which drastically increases your ability to gain stats. Now here is something that Jess wrote up that talks about this.

I understand the need for qi reform, and even agree to it, I personally though think that the more important issue, is actually the intelligence rule.

If it wasn't for the intelligence rule, qi wouldn't be so much of an issue, because the underlying problem is that people are to powerful, throw a qi into the equation and the world EXPLODES! O=

The problem though, is how powerful people are, am I correct?

Well that comes from the intelligence rule.

The intelligence rule was created as a substitute to the arena, because people gained to many stat points from the arena fights.

The arena, might I add, had a maximum of, what was it? 7 EXP for a fight? And I remember being told that there was a limit to how many arena fights you could have (don't know if that was actually true)

People are currently getting anywhere from 3-6 EXP, or MORE, for EVERY FIGHT!

That's a lot of EXP for one fight when the idea was to stop that from happening with the arena O= I myself, am currently getting 5 a fight.

This IS NOT calling anyone out, just bringing up the issue.

Now here is the NEXT problem. When you hit god level, you have no caps.

So if you have a base intelligence of 200, which is pretty easy to get with this rule, it's the posts that are hard, and I'm just bringing this up now before it gets out of hand, you're getting 11 EXP a fight.

For two fights, you get 22 EXP.

If you're at god level, with no cap, and you put that 22 into INT, you're now going to be getting 12 EXP a fight because you go up another INT level. Again, put it into INT and you're getting 13 EXP a fight. With no cap, you could actually get up 20 EXP for a single fight and begin the never ending cycle of DIVIDING BY ZERO O=

Qi only adds to what you already have. And if you already have that much, of course you're going to be OP.

As I said, I'm all for qi reform, but I think before that, we need to think about why people are getting so powerful that no one could catch up. With the INT rule, no one can ever realistically catch up EXP wise.

I've spoken to staff about this before, and I think it's a valid concern to bring up, maybe this isn't the right thread, but I really think it has something to do with the issue of qi, at least in this case.

I propose that the INT rule be capped. I think no matter how much INT you have, you should only be given 'X' amount of EXP. I think 10 is ok... I guess... I don't know...

Which goes into the next issue. The problem has been going on for so long, that people have already begun collecting insane amounts of EXP for single fights.

If you cap the rule, then what happens? Do people have to delete those EXP points? Do they keep them?

I think this should be dealt with now before it gets out of hand and I think it's a problem directly related to the qi issue.

... Just throwing that out there... >_>"

I know I spoke to you about this Ryan, sorry for bringing this up, I forgot the send that PM and I just think that this is related to the qi issue.

And I fully agree, since even the weakest Qi can become terribly destructive in the hands of someone who's stats are in the hundreds. As opposed to capping int however, Jess came up with a different solution for this to consider that I think actually makes a great deal of sense.

Another possible way to fix this- And hear me out right to the end, a lot of the stronger people might be like HELL NO, but just hear me out

Keep the intelligence rule as is, you get 1 EXP for every 20 in intelligence, but instead of taking your OWN int, you take it from the person you fought.

Technically, once you have that much intelligence there's very little left to learn, so it also makes logical sense that you would take less EXP if you fought someone weaker then you.

Also, no one wants to fight the stronger people anymore, because, well, they're to strong. This would encourage more RPing between members, and give everyone more of a reason to fight. Right now, some of the more powerful people on the board, are just like... 'whatever, I get so much EXP who cares...' Well if you're getting less, you have to work harder and that's what people like.

People like to work to get something.

It's why I now have items. It gives me something new to work towards since I already mastered qi.

I think this is something to consider and might also help make the new member thing better. People might join if they know they won't be that far behind forever with no possibility of catching up.

It would also mean people might stop whoring their intelligence... >_> and thus eliminate the need to cap the gain from it.

And I completely agree with this. A qi reform is good too, this is no way dismissing that solution only adding to it, because we believe it would help to solve some of the underlying problems Corey mentions in the first post.

[Matrim Gallagher]

Double posting to give a shorter version.

In order to solve the problem of new people feeling overwhelmed and like there is no way they could ever possibly catch up, there are two suggestions.

A) To cap the int rule.

Or the second suggestion mentioned, which me and Jess think is the best option.

B) To make it so that the exp gained is 1+ 1 for every base 20 int your opponent has.

And just to reiterate this is relevant due to the Int Rule having a lot to do with the issues Corey mentions leading to his decision to reform Qi, and is a possible solution to help with that in addition to reforming Qi's.

[Quest Character]

Feb 3, 2010 18:07:05 GMT -8 Matrim Gallagher said:

Double posting to give a shorter version.

In order to solve the problem of new people feeling overwhelmed and like there is no way they could ever possibly catch up, there are two suggestions.

A) To cap the int rule.

Or the second suggestion mentioned, which me and Jess think is the best option.

B) To make it so that the exp gained is 1+ 1 for every base 20 int your opponent has.

And just to reiterate this is relevant due to the Int Rule having a lot to do with the issues Corey mentions leading to his decision to reform Qi, and is a possible solution to help with that in addition to reforming Qi's.

one step ahead of you, so far as I'm told Intelligence rule is completely nerfed and now back to original content of +1 Exp per fight.

Updates to be discussed in Mod meeting planned for this weekend so we'll post updates soon to come

[Sara Gallagher]

I kinda like my idea better, I think it would encourage RPing with the stronger characters and help everyone catch up... The damage is done, taking it away doesnt fix it... I would at least like for my idea to be put on trial, or at least discussed... If it's not to much to ask...

EDIT!

Or at least put it to a vote to the members what would be best ><

[Matrim Gallagher]

Same, as she said Damage has been done, even going back to +1 means nobody is going to be able to catch up. I mean, look at how far everyone pretty much skyrocketed when we first got the int rule, this way it sorta makes it so newer types and or weaker types have the option of catching up by facing stronger types.

[Mischa Badoer]

I retract the last statements if anyone read them before I deleted them XD

But if you are looking at a perspective of "Newbies are never going to catch up"

There is no winning.

So what they are doing is finding other ways to deal with the problem that potentially will never be fixed... Cause if you guys are looking for equality of newbies and oldies... you might as well get rid of stats as a whole and I don't think a lot of people are willing to do that.

[Matrim Gallagher]

Fair enough in that aspect of it, but it's not so much newbies and oldies as the currently weak and the currently strong. I suppose the +1 is better than nothing, but I still like the idea of your opponents int. It won't guarantee catching up no matter what with stat caps though, so the idea isn't everyone becomes equal or has the same of everything.

So much as the idea is that catching up isn't out of the realm of possibilities.