Items From 774

[Van]

Nov 21, 2010 22:37:44 GMT -8 Tony Venture said:

Still the one that really takes the cake for me is an item that can take away 80% of MY stats for an OOC month because I betray this person. That seems incredibly unfair and spiteful out of character, punishing me the role player for a full month for playing my character how they would be played. To me it seems like preemptive grief play to keep people loyal.

You're right, that doesn't seem fair at all. We shall discuss this.

Also, thank you very much for staying on the subject and getting right to the point. It's much appreciated.

I think what needs to be done is a revising/adding to the item rules, because there seems to be much confusion regarding what items can or cannot do---for example, whether or not they may control another player as in Tony's case. Personally, to me that sounds like something that should be against the rules.

Other things needing clarification that are not mentioned in the rules:

• how many set bonuses can you have at a time?
  
• can items raise the stat cap?
  
• how powerful is 'too powerful'? (Everyone seems to be complaining about items that are 'too powerful', but that's too vague a complaint to be able to find a solution.)
  

What we have here is a failure to communicate. It's nobody's fault in particular; each RPer has only been doing what they believe they are allowed to do. The issues in question have not been mentioned in the rules, so there's no need for angst or hurt feelings toward another player because they have been unfair or 'breaking the rules'. It's a simple difference of opinion regarding what is fair and what is not. To resolve this, we need to make the rules clear. Simple as that.

Let's discuss this, please, in a mature and unbiased manner.

[David B.]

Not gonna delve deep into all the tempers that have flared, on the petty attacks (Whether they were meant as attacks or mistaken as such) and the un-abashed flaring of defense. My stance on that is this- everyone who has an issue with other people and attacking them IC, OOC or in this thread, let shit go and grow the fuck up. Others who feel attacked constantly, stop being so damn defensive, and grow the fuck up too. We're here to have a damn good time combining stories with the imaginations of others, not bicker about items we lost, need, want, have, hate seeing others with, feel are unjust. I completely cut my strongest characters exp in half, because i felt he was too strong. Did i bitch? No. Do i talk about it sometimes in wistfullness? Of course. Anyone would. But it was the best decision for me. Its a game- this isn't life or death shit- just because people have an amped up item and you don't, doesnt give you the right to cry about it like a little baby.

Groooowwww uuuuuuup. please. good god.

ANYWAY.

I believe the items should be nerfed. BUT, because they are being nerfed when the owners brought them over, i believe one of two actions should be taken.

1: They should recieve 130% of what they paid for it. Its only just.

or

2: They recieve 60-80% of the total exp they gained from that item, and just get it in base exp. They can choose between those things, and let it be done. Thats my opinion. Anyone who says "Well, thats not right blah blah blah" can wet their little panties about it. Its right and just. If an item grants a power that is great, they should recieve an over-the-top amount for them in cash. Yeah, the item is gone. But now you can upgrade other items, buy other things, that give you even more exp boosts.

This is right for everyone. The powers will be gone, and the people who had the items themselves would recieve definitive compensation for being stripped of what they were promised when they brought the item over.

If you have a problem with my words, if a member or a mod feels this too harsh, please, see me, i'll happily discuss this with you.

Corey Elkins. (You know who i play.)

EDIT: fyi, im not eliminating the items yet. This poll will continue through until Leon is ready to end it.

[Patrick O'Connor]

I feel at the very least, items with powers need to be SPECIFICALLY defined so there is no chance of using them for OP means, hell this should even be applied to qi. I feel any vagueness is a bad thing because that can be easily abused through manipulation of logic. Short response but whatever

[Deleted]

I just want to say this...


... I called this 3 years ago.

[Mischa Badoer]

Now that I'm in a good mood today.

I want to clear my name.

As you see in my departure post I apologized how I acted and all that fun stuff and gave my reason why... now I will just have a proper say in this.

As Vespyr said... yes there are no limits to anything. I agree. I thought my item set power was wicked strong... I think a lot of peoples' powers or items or qis are really strong that is why I didn't see much of a problem and that is why I refused more powers when fusing my items and weakened them with negative effects. I basically fight statless with every one of my characters anyway...stats are there just cause it gives you something to look t.

The main issue for me was I think that if someone has a complaint about an item they should go to a moderator and said moderator should discuss the issues with the person who had been complained about... 'cause when you look at situations like these it can make someone feel targeted (signing on to see a thread about nerfing only specific items can really put that thought into someone's head). I never wanted to be the girl who nobody liked for an item and if a mod came to me and said "Hey...You're power is too strong it's getting complaints" I would have changed it even without compensation. So this was all a misunderstanding and all this bitterness could have been avoided.

That and another suggestion. Leon... you said you didn't check items when accepting bios. Now when I get accepted I just assume my items are getting checked over 'cause boards do have different rules and expectations so when I don't receive any feedback on my items...I assume they are alright. So another mis-communication that could have been avoided.

EDIT: Oh and Corey... No offense but you contradicted yourself. If you think that people shouldn't complain about items then you shouldn't think that items should be nerfed 'cause your first statement basically says "Items are fine the way they are leave em be and grow up"XD

Oh and as for getting defensive... I explained that It was my medication (or lack there of)..hell you even witnessed one of my freak outs without that stuff.... and so when I think people are complaining about my items I'm gonna get pissed off 'cause I honestly don't think that items are worth the time to get bitter against everyone for....... 'cause yeah...no one likes to be hated over a fictional item.

That is all.

You can find me at 774.

See yeah!

[Mr. Kaar]

1. I nt check items on peoples bio's because I trust people, I assumed no one coul have stronger items than 259, thus no one wuld be able t bitc, also since Ryan(Gabriel) was likely the inventor of these items, I assumed the items would be around the same brder lines of ours, ths again, being sanctioned nd easily accepted by 259. 552ers get checked because I have a lit of alot of the items that ever existed or exist on that forum, and a detailed data base of quite a few peoples gear. Long story short, I dont trust 552ers.

2. Thank you for clrifying your position and the suggestion for the future, I hope your new journey is worth while and fun.

3. The items being nerfed or not isn't finalized in decision with this poll, I, that is me, myself, and I cometo the final concluion on their complete destruction. If there is simply a worded issue, then there is no need. It can be re-worded and then assessed for its over all "Strength". Be it likely that the normal stat boost of their items is on par with our own I dont see a reason to completely nerf them, if so decided they can simply be modified to fit better.

4. Something Tony brought up was, was set up of the items "Stat Caps" I have no idea how that works, except for understanding that the first number is how far along the cap you are and the second is the max of the cap. Now I've also sen this combined with a second set of stat boosts like +30 somethin to one stat and +20 smethin to another. I am very confused by this.

5. In Corey's post the first half says "Dont argue over petty shit and grow up, this is a game" the second half is his belief as a player, a good split between being a mod and a player at the same time, which is ideal. When you get your shot at modship you'll find yourself doing the same one day.

6. I believe only one ite set bonus hould be active at one time, or one item set be equiped at one time. This was the intention fromt h beginning but if anyone has any idea's we re open to it, and since it was never specified previously, it would be an easy addition.

7. In special occasions items like the School Captain's gloves where able to rise he stat cap of each stat by 5. Giving a Captain that permnent boost, soeven if Captainship is lost the boost remains. So its plausable, but not in the manner as can be perceved by these items if thats the assumption being made that they raise stat caps. I elieve as stated before the set of numbers are the cap on the total amount the item itself can boost someone's stats not their cap.

8. Too powerful can be anything breaking a current smiler rule placed somewhere else, like Qi. Qi isn;t allowed to effect your opponent, and neither should items. Qi can only give a maximum boost of +25 with reasonable draw backs, and on the off qi pwer those are tested for ther strength and aproved like percentages, the max % an item can gie is +50%, no mutliplications, if something has multiplications it predates this rule. Still all this is open for debate.

That is all from me for now. Please continue.

[David B.]

EDIT: Actually, what Leon said i said, works perfect.

[Kenin Katashi]

Alrighty here's my very on topic reply. I will be referencing specific items that I have issues with and why, this is in no way a personal attack on any character. This is an attack on the item as I feel it is over powered. If I was going to attack your character, I'd punch them in the mouth in a thread and shake my head at them as I walked away, thank you. Now then....

1) You shouldn't be able to effect other player's stats via items either positively or negatively, at least not without a huge cost on the user for positively effecting others, and NEVER negatively. So for Jayr's item where she can boost her allies a definite amount and then another item she is able to boost depending on her Charisma, this should be completely stricken unless she herself sacrifices these stats from somewhere, otherwise she could gain over 200 allies and ideally boost all of them at no cost, and then you have a supercharged army of NPC's or PC's which pretty much puts her in a place where her character is slightly over powered and has an unfair advantage.

2) When I think of Item Sets I think of a whole ensemble, like you have your armor set. That said you could have mini set bonuses, but they shouldn't be near as powerful as Jayr's ability to completely absorb Qi attacks and add them to her strength for what seems like an indefinite amount of time, this seems to be completely ridiculous if you ask me since this means that anyone using Qi is unable to even touch her, and on top of this she can have a Qi of her own working for her.

3) Jayr's jacket has the ability to add to her stats based off of her charisma, which if you look closely enough her charisma is a pretty bitchin stat, though when you look at her base charisma it is nothing close to her items. Anything in her items where an addition is made by charisma should be done by Base Charisma, not by charisma with items. I understand that percentages have been said to be done after item addition, but I do not feel this applies in this situation.

4) To counter any argument that these items are not over powered and that you worked very hard for them, I give you something to think about. This is in no way a personal attack but is just a mere comparison. If I were to fight Jayr based off of base stats alone, my chances of winning would be extremely different from with items. If anyone were to fight Jayr with items, and then fight her without them it would be as if the character had suddenly weakened for no apparent reason. The argument that she worked hard for these items could still be made, but when moving to a different board you should bear in mind that the amount of posts you have, the amount of base stats you have as far as I can tell were universal for each board. So why then do you have items that boost your stats by a total of +371 stat points when you as a character barely have over 200 stat points. Over 50% of this characters strength is in statistical bonuses not counting the powers that come with it. Donovan Green seems to be the same way, though not as extreme as a case as with Jayr. As for Kazuya, his stats and items seem to be in a great balance, and aside from his ring which I don't quite understand everything seems to be good power wise aside from a bulk of Jayr's items. Hell even Donovan's single item bonus is kinda funny and doesn't seem to be over the top at all.


SO THEN

When I say "I don't care about the statistical bonuses." That says something. Others might, hell I still think they should be drastically nerfed, but since I can sort of see there point of view I'm asking bare minimum we make sure their items can't god mod or completely increase others who don't even own these items themselves without a huge cost.

It's not your fault your items are broke, it's not the item creator's fault, it's nobody's fault. What it is, is that you had a different board, it had a different system. You are no longer on that board or part of it's system, your items after observation need to be fit into this system better as not to give you an unfair advantage over people who posted and participated in quests on this board. That shouldn't give you the reaction of fuck this shit I'm out, it should give you the reaction that hey, now I get to work on my character some more. Maybe I can rebuild them, reconstruct them in a way that fits this board.

And who knows, maybe you could sell those items and use the cash to create new items, you'd fit in better with this board, and it'd be more like a fresh start. You could even do cool things with the item fusion system, I know I have my eyes set on a certain blade to fuse with my healing bandages to see what kind of mutated band-aid-blade I can come up with for Ken.

So please, don't get mad, don't get upset, and don't take this as a personal attack. Could this have been handled differently? Yeah so what, that's obviously a moot point since nobody can change the past. Does it suck that you might, key word MIGHT, not be as powerful? Well yeah but you can work to make your character badass again in a new way. The most boring point of any RPG game for me is when I've done everything there is and my character is powerful enough to beat the game and any sidequest. So what do I do? I start again, or from a previous save point and try a new approach if I don't want to completely start over.

Now then, those are the items I feel are kinda OP, so yeah I think the stat plusses are a bit much but I wouldn't push too much to lower them. I'd advise taking it into consideration by looking at the character's base stats, and then stats after equipping items.

I'd argue that one item set is enough, and no one item set should be completely god like as in past boards we defined god modding as not just playing god, but having a godly and nearly unbeatable character and absorbing Qi assaults for an indefinite amount and adding that to your ability to hurt the other person seems like a bit much.

This isn't a product of somebody trying to make their character immortal, to me it seems like the product of a moderator's attempt to create interest in an old board, to give rewards to characters so that they could keep activity and interest up. So the person who made these items obviously does care for their member base and the life of their board, but this whole situation is no reason to quit and go back to an old board. There's a reason it's an old board, there is a reason you are here. In time, you'll probably find that reason and return.









Then again that could just be me taking one too many hits for the night. Feels good to be healthy, that's all I'm gonna say.

Grant out.... but not really I'm not leaving or nothin more just posting this cus I went on forever and feel like a douche.

[Kazuya Hikari]

Nov 23, 2010 22:47:14 GMT -8 Kenin Katashi said:

As for Kazuya, his stats and items seem to be in a great balance, and aside from his ring which I don't quite understand everything seems to be good power wise aside from a bulk of Jayr's items.

Love ya lots Grant XD

As for Kazuya's ring, well, the powers for it are rather confusing, but it's simply a wording issue I assume. Also, it's been vaulted since I brought Kazuya back here, so there shouldn't be complaints about it, seeing as I've NEVER used it XD

[Kenin Katashi]

Yeah I didn't really have a problem with it and I saw it was vaulted but even if it wasn't nothing about it seems to be an issue, seems like a straightforward addition of stats depending on the situation for Kazuya so it's cool in my opinion.

[Brad White]

Been looking over the items mentioned so far and can see where some people might have a problem. What I think is their should be a list of what exactly items can and can't do how they work and the such.

I'm not going to mention certain items but i think here a list of rules that could be considered to make items fairer, all items not just the 774. Some of these idea go against each other but I'm just giving a many thing for people to think about. I give example but use small number just to make the math easier on myself.

1 - Items with powers that have effect based on a stat should either be Base Stats only, or Base plus that items bonus to the stat, but no other items. The power itself should stat this to make it clear to people. (Example: I have a +10 DEX item with the power to increase my Dex by 50% for a thread. I have a Base DEX of 20 but 40 with all my items. Either I would get +10Base Stat only or +15Base Stat and the item itself. I wouldn't get +20 due to my other items.)

2 - Alternatively Item with effect like that use the person stat with items but must come with a fair and equal draw back. (Example: With the same stats and item as the previous example, but I would gain the plus +20 because my other items are include but have a penalty equal to half that I gain to a stat. I get some additional bonus out of the item but have a draw back to make up for the fact I got to include all my other item's in to the calculation.)

3 - Item stat cap. Put a limit on to how high items can take a stat. Possible was to do this is to say either no stat can double/triple whatever the normal stat cap the person should have. Or the overall bonus a person has to a stat can't double/triple the EXP they have.

4 - Power from items don't negatively effect other people just like Qi. I don't give you a minus to your stat, but could say I gain a bonus against a particular foe. It give a similar result but people won't complain that your trying to make them weaker, it also means your doing the maths for your stats yourself rather the making the other player you just effect it. They shouldn't have to figure out the minus.

5 - If a power is one that would require consent for you to use it, label the item as needing consent of the person your effecting.

6 - A effect that can boost stats on someone other then you can't effect lot of people at once. Making a army out of stat-less NPC's in to a army of PC's with stat. It is either pointless or over powered. Also giving all allied PC in a thread a bonus is unfair to the other side. If you want to say your item make a group of power stronger a tougher in your post say so and trust the other players to role play as if they were with out the need of think as all the NPC's having stats.

7 - INT and item. CHA effect Qi why not have INT effect items. Not completely sure how this would work but just throwing it out there.

8 - Put a limit on what a Item can increase stat wise. We already have the nothing greater the +50% rule, what the point if a person can have a item that increases a stat more then that just because it doesn't plus by a percentage.

9 - Item Set Bonus.
9a: A person can have only one item set bonus at a time. A set bonus must have a minimum amount of items to work. Basically no item set bonus can be made up of less then 3/4 items or something like that.
9b:Have 2 types of set bonuses instead. A main set bonus like the one described above. And then a set that can be made up of 2 items but the powers are much weaker. Name the types. Minor/Major or Lower/Higher or something like that.

10: Possible the most important. If any rule around items changes for any reason, all older items must conform, if this down grades a item then give compensation, a item that makes up loss bonus from a down graded item or money of a fair amount. (This probably would annoy people though I know but it would make the playing field fair.)

These are all just suggestion to make people think and maybe come to a fair and working system.

[Kazuya Hikari]

Nov 24, 2010 10:34:20 GMT -8 Kenin Katashi said:

Yeah I didn't really have a problem with it and I saw it was vaulted but even if it wasn't nothing about it seems to be an issue, seems like a straightforward addition of stats depending on the situation for Kazuya so it's cool in my opinion.

Thanks broski.

Also, keep in mind, I've RPed Kazuya for 2+ years, so his base stats would be high due to all the EXP I've earned for him. Hell, I even reverted the EXP from his past 259 fights when the INT rule was in effect back to +1 EXP. If I hadn't, he'd have a lot more EXP stored XD

[Kenin Katashi]

Nov 24, 2010 15:53:14 GMT -8 Kazuya Hikari said:

Nov 24, 2010 10:34:20 GMT -8 Kenin Katashi said:

Yeah I didn't really have a problem with it and I saw it was vaulted but even if it wasn't nothing about it seems to be an issue, seems like a straightforward addition of stats depending on the situation for Kazuya so it's cool in my opinion.

Thanks broski.

Also, keep in mind, I've RPed Kazuya for 2+ years, so his base stats would be high due to all the EXP I've earned for him. Hell, I even reverted the EXP from his past 259 fights when the INT rule was in effect back to +1 EXP. If I hadn't, he'd have a lot more EXP stored XD

Yeah which is sort of my point with Jayr was that her base stats and post count didn't reflect her power, if anything you'd think you would have more strength than her overall under normal circumstances.

And I like a lot of what Brad said, some of it I would do differently myself, but the overall opinion and the idea of the rules is very good.

[Kazuya Hikari]

Well, if Kazuya had fought her with just base stats alone, then yes, the circumstances would've been different, since Kazuya's base stats are 70 straight across.

Has a decision been decided on yet for the 774 items? Though at this point, I doubt it'd matter, seeing as Robbie, Ryan, and Megan have all left, and I'm really the only one still here right now.

[Mr. Kaar]

The issues that have been presented are being worked over, if you havn't recieved anything yet, then expect to once we reach your case.