Stats: Revamp or Ship Off

[Aureus]

After a certain member asked me about how stats work, it reoccurred to me that that the system is fucked in it's current state because there's no details for how many stats do what. For example, what can you do with 30 str that you can't with 20? There's no set rules for stats, and because of this people come up with their own ideas on it and then when they try to fight there's a conflict. I tried to resolve this long ago, but Hiroko and Chris refused to consider it, a position I still can't even comprehend to this day. So I want to know what you guys think of this. If you're in favor of keeping things as they are, how would YOU answer this question:

"The only thing I don't really understand are Stats. I have read a few threads with fights in it but none speak of stats. So how are these used exactly? Also how would a "stat only" battle be?"

This was my shot at it:

SPOILER: Click to show

Ah yes, one of the logical gray areas of Xin RPing. Stats are an OOC way of displaying how "strong" your character is in different areas including physical strength, speed, endurance, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. Now, strength and speed are relatively easy to understand, but intelligence and wisdom can cause some confusion due to their similarities. In the "Stats and Stat Rules" thread you will find this:

"Strength: How much damage you can deal to your opponent.

Dexterity: How fast you can move.

Constitution: How long you can do a strenuous activity, and how much damage you can take, your will to continue.

Intelligence: How well you can counter an opponents moves and how difficult the moves you preform are.

Wisdom: How well you can predict your opponents moves, see an attack coming.

Charisma: How much people like you, and how well you can "Influence" others (NPC's). This also determines how strong your Qi attack is, and how long it can be sustained."

So basically int is how well you can physically counter and attack, the thought put into your attacks and counters if you will. Wisdom on the other hand is how well you can SEE the your opponents attacks coming. So if you have high wis, but low int, you may know an attack is coming but not be able to counter it well.

The way I rationalized it is that when you attack, you add up your dex and int to get a stat called hit. You then add up your opponent's wis and dex to get a stat called evasion. You compare your hit to their evasion and RP based on that. I think I'm the only one who does it like that. Strength and con aren't as important, because you consider them only when you receive or take a hit.

When people say stat only they mean you must act strictly according to your stats. Which like I mentioned above leaves too much room for speculation. With a stat and RP mix, you take into consideration your stats and how well you can write and the logic you write with. RP ability only/No stats means you ignore stats and fight according to just your logic.

[Zana]

I've been on a XIN board which used no stats at all! It is really the users decision when to give in and when to keep on fighting. The problem occurs when - like you mentioned- people have different ideas of how much stat does what.

Either way if fine- I mean, the hard work put into peeps in getting the stats is a just reward, they deserve it. The ones with lower stats are working their way up.

Albeit, as said before, it does get confusing if we're on different terms. How's this?

1. Set up a set method of attacking counterattacking with stats- like INT and DEX for hits, etc. As stated by Aureus

2. Get rid of stats (possibly) and role play it out

3. Find another method and agree upon it with everyone.

[Aureus]

THANK YOU for replying. Figured everyone was gonna ignore it. Anyways, I've given it a little thought and I'm hammering out a system that would keep stats, but instead of starting with 5 and getting them from fights, etc your exact abilities in each stat would be decided by a level with a cap of 5 or something; I haven't decided yet. You would level up like in an RPG, so you'd still get XP from fights and stuff but it wouldn't translate into a stat point. Though defining each level for stats like int and wis complicates things. Right now I just wanna know what everyone thinks.

[Purr-Moi?!]

Mwaa~

I find it easier with no stats but then again..it makes some certain things clear..like strength..speed ..to prevent godmoding stuff.

Plus some people work very hard for EXP.

Maybe you can choose if you want to fight with stats or not..but still gain EXP.

something like that..Dunno


O___O?

[Aureus]

I see watcha mean, but the point of the stats' existence is to facilitate fights to make them more understandable and fun, so if another system comes along that does that same thing it shouldn't matter. They're just a means to an end. Thank you for your opinion. *Waits for more people to post*

[Reverend (Dots) Teyfour]

i like the stats and how they work

[John]

How 'Confusing' I guess this is, which I dont understand really. Do any of you actually watch XIN? I mean it should be easy to figure out. I believe I explained somewhere what XIN physics are. Listen, and LISTEN CAREFULLY for I will only repeat myself one more time when I put this in the rules section.

THIS board is actually XIN. It's not Hircine which is real life, its not 552 which is a fantasy role play, this, THIS IS XIN!

This board revolves around XIN physics, understand this, the world around you has no stats. There is no Constitution for a wall, but you do have a Strength. Think like this, the whole world has thses stats.

Str: 0
Dex: 0
Con: 0
Int: 0
Wis: 0
Cha: 0

Now dont take this too seriousely, YES it does mean you can punch through just about anything, YES it does mean you can get hit through a wall, have a building callapse on you, or be thrown into a car. Guess what? You can keep on coming. But be reasonable, your still gonna feel it. It's still gonna hurt, no matter what your Con is, unless you have something over the Senior cap like 60 then its gonna hurt. Think like this if you have to.

30 Average
60 Godly.

Freshman, newb cap is 30. Senior, old dude cap is 60. Which means your a bad ass mother fucker if you can move faster, take more, or dish out more than the cap of a Senior.

I dont see how its confusing myself, I've NEVER had a problem in a fight against anyone on this board, and I'm pretty sure I've faught or am fighting almost everyone. Dont make it more complicated than it needs to be.

The only thing you compaire is your stats versus your opponents, as much as Aureus's system sounds like it would work, fights just dont sound epic that way. It sounds too much like everything is controlled completely leaving no creative right to the player.

Personal Opinion

And Dodging... -rubs head- Dodging is deffinitly no fun. How do you expect to have an epic battle if you avoid attacks? Just my oppinion, but there are times yes, you can avoid an attack, but what I saw on XIN, avoiding barely happened, not even at the beginning of their fights. Every now and then, sure a dodge here and there makes you look cool, I get that, some head bobs, awesome. But if your statistics automatically make you untouchable when there is a slight difference then its boring as hell.

Just fight, Destroy shit, make it epic, break your bones, bleed half to death, fucking pound on your opponent and the enviornment. You want a good example?

Str: 30
Dex: 30
con: 30
Wis: 30
Int: 30
Cha: 30

Str: 35
Dex: 35
con: 35
Wis: 35
Int: 35
Cha: 35

Who wins? With Aureus's system of hits and misses being predetermined obviousely the guy with 5 more in each stat wins. But if you just fight and use XIN physics, the damn things still a toss up. How is it confusing, whats confusing, someone stand up and tell me, so I can explain.

Now Cha, thats gotta be understandable, this measures the difference between the power of your qi and someone elses if they clash. Like fire and Ice, sure ice melts from fire, but if there is stronger, colder, much more potent ice, that fire will dwindle and die.

Intellagence and Wisdom are something you learn along the way, these stats are used by seasoned veterans, and in doing so explain their uses to the rest of you. Guess what that makes you? A seasoned veteran, dear god no way. You have to stick with it, and "GO WITH THE FLOW". That has been a mottot that has helped MANY a person get past their own ego's and become an epic fight writter.

And sorry if this offends anyone, I'm not in a good mood.

[Aureus]

No offense taken, old friend. Though I think you misunderstood my explanation. Things definitely wouldn't be predetermined, because that's TOO rigid a system, which I'm vehemently against. Though you just explained things in a very broad way. After reading it, it makes me wonder why we even need stats in the first place if things are just broken down into "noob, average, and godly" if you will.

To get to the root of the issue I think we have to examine the thought processes behind stat and no-stat systems. If we assume that the TOP point is to have fun, in a no stat system there is no reward from fighting except the experience itself. You fight 'cause it's fun to you.

If you support a stat system you're saying, I want an EXTRA reward for fighting. As time goes on I want to gather rewards that give me an advantage over newer players. In plain terms, it's a plea for seniority.

In a stat-less system, your experience isn't numbers, it's ACTUAL mental experience from RPing fights over and over. If you want a stat advantage, then it's LESS about fun and MORE about winning.

In stat systems you don't have to think as much, because instead of having to actually learn something, the stats automatically give you that advantage over time, whether you win or lose. But at the same time it relives the players of some responsibility. I just think you need to find a more balanced system. Again, I haven't fully come up with a solution to it, I'm just saying.

Going back to your post, you kinda argue against the current system yourself. What's the point of enumerating stats the way we do if a person with 5 more than his opponent in each one doesn't have an advantage? I'm not saying I want it to be like that, but that's the impression those numbers give. So you have to be specific about how many more stats you have to have to have a noticeable advantage OR find a more accurate way to represent the xin physics idea you talk about.

[John]

Jesus.

Ok, think about it, from your experience on this board how quickly does a person rise in the ranks? They can go from newb to hero in a matter of months.

5 is not a huge difference, maybe slight, the difference in a second in a race, the difference in being pushed back slightly in a power struggle, the difference of feeling a bit more pain than your opponent.

10 would be a more noticable difference. This is when you start getting seperated from the others.

and it just gets worse from there.

[Aureus]

See, you just have to define that. Add it to the rules so everyone thinks about it the same way, you just can't assume they do. That's all I'm saying.

[Wyatt]

I Just want to say everyone is being very mature about his issue (from other arguments that I've seen on Stats)

Makes one feel that every one here is on the same lvl as every one else.


Ok my opinion is there has to be a balance between stats and RP.

To much stats base = boring (no fun, outcomes are predetermined)

To much RP= A Freshmen taking down a Teacher (Which is a sicking site)

But "Balance" = Like an Ice cold Ice-Tea on a Hot summers day!

[Zack Asiv]

Which is where XIN physics come in.

That freshmna may not be able to beat that damn teacher, but that freshman can put up a damn good fight.

In which as a REWARD for putting his/her character on the line to take down a character he gets a statistic point. Furthering his attributes to one day be able to take down that teacher.

No one seems to look at it like that, the only time someone gets confused about stats is when they think on it too hard. If your thinking on it too hard its because you want to win and nothing else, which is why in my opinion, stat heavy RPers shouldn't get Exp and be stuck with the beginning stats of 259 until they learn better.

[Aureus]

Well a big factor in the "getting better to beat someone" scenario is the activity of both members. If they're both equally active, then nothing will change. Unless you put a curve on it or something where you get more xp, or xp more frequently when you're low level, but when you're a high level you get less or less frequently. You could also take into consideration the strength difference between characters and distribute xp based on that as well. It all depends on what you wanna do and if you think it needs to be balanced like that.

Also, if you go by what you said earlier where dodging is bad, you kind of nerf the dex stat. The question of whether it should be nerfed is up for debate.

[Zack Asiv]

I didn't say dodging was bad, I said boring.

And it doesn't nurf Dex, its still needed for who can attack faster, who moves too fast for you to see, this is when you get into the details of Wis and Int. But thats focusing too hard on them, speed is good to have and not entirely meant for dodging, why does every stat only have one use? I use each stat in at least 3 different ways a piece.

You just gotta know how to be epic.

[Aureus]

XD